That alone is enough to make me pay the extra money for it. We say “generally” because the vehicle manufacturer may have a formula already worked out for the R134a conversion process. Many classic car enthusiasts have stated that their original air conditioning systems, once changed over and refilled with R134A, do not blow as cold as they used to. This chart has a column of “ambient” (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. Hence the perception that R12 is colder. For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. R134 works just fine in a system designed to use R134. You do not have to split up the 5-6 oz of oil and add it to each component, just simply put it all in the compressor as it will move throughout the whole system once the system is operational. 3) Cp of R600a much higher than R134a. The typical scenario here is when the car owner buys an inexpensive “retro-fit” kit from the local auto parts store. FrostyCool 134a operates at lower head pressures and offers colder air and improved performance compared to HFC-R134a. Although R134A does not damage the earth’s ozone layer like its predecessor R12, it is still not considered the safest refrigerant. Torque the … The ac will need to be converted first. And by “matching” the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. Statisicaly your friend was lucky. of R-134a. Did you convert everything required to run R134A? ©2001-2021 Griffiths Technical Inc. All Rights Reserved. Colder than R134a & Non Ozone Depleting 3.5 out of 5 stars 8 product ratings 8 product ratings - ZeroR Car AC Refrigerant r134a can, Alternative r134a 12 cans, (6oz = 16 oz can) If you use an updated condenser (most are) and a Sanden compressor, go R134a. ! COLDER THAN R12 or R134a!!!!! The system will be checked for “gross” leaks while under vacuum. R-12 and R-134a both cool the same. Besides R134a there are some other refrigerants that are “approved” to replace R12 and there is a long list of refrigerants that are “not approved”. The only difference is that r-12 is known to be an ozone depleting agent and therefore, is being phased out. R134A is sometimes also used to cool overworked computer systems. Before the retrofit, the A/C blew ice-cold air. By noting the ambient temperature you can look up what the preferred high side pressure should be. R152A is slightly less dense than R134A , so it can theoretically contribute to better fuel economy as well. R134A or HFC-134A became the accepted standard, because it has no potential of ozone depletion and has similar (but not equal to) cooling abilities to the R-12 and R-22 refrigerants. its a shame R12 is gone, it blows allot colder than … You do not want to exceed the system’s high side recommendations. R134a conversions generally are not as cold as R12 was. of R-12 or 16 oz. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the “capability” to remove more heat (measured in btu’s) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. R134A will work better once you have stripped any trace of usage in the old system. Because A/C compressors have moving parts, they require oil. Did you convert everything required to run R134A? Unfortunately, there is not much anyone can … Do a pre-inspection and then Evacuate (vacuum down) the system, the longer the evacuation the better but there is a point of diminishing return, 2-3 hours is generally very good. There are other refrigerants: some of which may work, some of which don’t work, some of which will destroy your a/c system and some of which are dangerous. When the ambient air temps get above 80F the gauge readings can run a bit higher on the high side and lower on the low side when using R134a. Some compressor manufacturer’s or OEM’s suggest PAG type oil for R134a. The problem with using an approved alternative refrigerants other than R134a is that when the system is serviced it requires certain types of fittings, labels and dedicated equipment. This can be very very expensive. The money you will save by will pay for the R12”. I had a 1989 Accord in which the compressor seized several years later. Each can is 6oz. Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the car’s interior. After the optimum refrigerant charge is determined the car should be test driven to check for performance of the system. R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. UNIVERSAL COMPATIBILITY – The chemical compound of ZeroR ® Refrigerant will safely bond with the compounds of R134a, R1234YF, R12 and more! R-134a is the "replacement" for r-12. R134a & R12 Substitute Super Seal Alternate A/C Recharge Kit. Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif. Yo ,you do know that you cant use 134 in a car made to use r12 dont you? These efforts to “balance” the system can not be realized if there are problems within the a/c system, such as: poor performing compressor, dirty condenser or poor air flow through the condenser, malfunctioning expansion valve, water or air in the system, improperly operating fresh air or heat input in the climate-air mixing system. Vehicles manufactured before 1994 used R12 for air conditioning. Whether R134a performs as well as R12 in any given a/c system depends upon system components and the amount of R134a used. The common problem when converting from R12 to R134a is lack of knowledge or equipment. It has similar thermal properties to R-134a, but with far less global warming potential than R-134a (less even than that of CO 2). So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. UNIVERSAL COMPATIBILITY – The chemical compound of ZeroR Refrigerant will safely bond with the compounds of R134a, R1234YF, R12 and more! This is not to say that one of these small retro-fit kits can’t be used, however to be used wisely. GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. R12 systems can be converted to R134a but special modifications to the system are necessary. Most systems can either detect R12 or R134a. One difference is pressure, and R134 works at a higher pressure than R12, which is hard on the seals when you convert from R12 to R134. I had the AC on my 84 converted professionally. If you find any of these conditions you will want to ‘liquid flush’ (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. You may have heard of a friend that did the job himself with borrowed equipment and 12 or 16 ounce cans of refrigerant. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for ‘sludge or waxing’ (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). You just can't win at some things. Ok my ac compressor locked up the other day and we found an r134a compressor out of a 94 G20 that bolted up to my motor without a hitch. The following errors occurred with your submission. R134a systems require larger condensers and higher operating pressures than R12 systems because R134a doesn’t have as high of a heat transfer rate as R12 (which has a heavier molecular size than R134a). Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the drier’s site glass to determine if the system is full. We chose to use 5-6 ounces of oil to be on the safe side: 3-4 ounces for the compressor, 1 oz of oil for the drier and another ounce of oil for “system losses”. Old mineral oil does not pair up good with R134A. Typically 5 to 6 ounces of a/c oil is adequate but this may vary depending upon the car. At this time you can still find R12, but, because it is no longer produced, availability is limited to current inventories and the price per pound is greater than R134a. Also, doing a conversion half-assed will greatly hamper the system. You do not however “need” to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. R12 can blow 6 to 7 degrees cooler than R134a and is 15% more efficient. DOES NOT REQUIRE EPA CERTIFICATION TO PURCHASE!!! What about everybodys complaint that R-12 systems are colder than R-134a? The only downside to R-1234yf is that unlike previous CFCs, R-1234yf is slightly flammable. You have R12, R134a came in '94. How much, varies from one type of vehicle to another. In retro fitted systems, R12 is colder by a few degrees. On older cars with converted systems that were originally designed to run R12, you do get reduced cooling relative to the original system, so I … New systems designed for R134a will freeze you out of the car. Many organizations believe that R134A contributes to global warming. Yes I am aware of the fact R-12 hasn't been made since 1994, and people with unused cans of R-12 are highly capitalizing off of it. |. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. ENVIROSAFE "Industrial" Recharge kit includes; Includes 4 cans of Envirosafe "Industrial" Refrigerant. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. of R-134a. Attach the R134a charge port adaptors, there are two types.. one of which you need to remove the old R12 valve cores. i would recommend that you replace the rubber hoses that are compatible with R134a. It’s not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. Before we mentioned that you can add approximately 5-6 ounces of ester oil to the compressor. In two identical systems, the R12 will always blow colder than 134a, all else being equal. The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. When you add fluorescent “tracer dye” to with the refrigerant oil it helps to track down leaks that push oil out of the system. Each can is 6oz. R-12. A lower GWP alternative to R-134a had to … They only come in 20-gal tanks nowadays. Disconnect the two hose lines to the compressor, protect the ends from getting dirty. So to keep things simple and to avoid controversy and politics we have R134a. The next piece of equipment to track down leaks is a “leak sniffer”. If you want a SUPER COLD A/C in your automobile, then you need to use the ENVIROSAFE "Industrial" R12A. Just leave it alone for now. Stay home and grill your own steaks and stir your own martini. This is an electronic tool that sucks in air through a tube and across a sensor. COLDER THAN R134A & R12 – ZeroR AC Refrigerant is a lightweight gas and reduces friction in your AC system which improves cooling performance! The exact amount will vary with each car. Modern R134 systems blow plenty cold already. Here are the basics for converting a system that does not have a charge of R12, it’s empty. R134a swells the rubber components in the refrigeration system and causes leaks. Generally you follow the refrigerant flow moving from connection to connection, component to component, and you sniff the a/c vents to check for evaporator leaks as well. If your a/c system is empty/low on refrigerant, if your system has a leak or if you need to open the system, then now is the time to decide which refrigerant you want to use. It is colder than 134a and has much larger molecules that are less likely to leak. For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. The safe high side pressures are determined with a “PT” (pressures and temperatures) chart. Hopefully after you have read this entire page you will have enough information to determine which type of refrigerant is best for you. The flammables have hydrocarbons. and you will also need some adapters to be able to charge the system w/R134a. The original rubber a/c hose lines in your car will leak out R12 through the hose’s lining. To “bless” the system the technician should attach a R134a sticker somewhere in the engine compartment to note the car is using R134a. For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: “Don’t go out to dinner this weekend. We mention using “ester” type refrigerant oil. Generally the system will be “initially” charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. R12, Artic Air, GET COLDER AIR, R12 Refrigerant support, Artic, 3 4oz cans. In addition, there was the lubricant issue. ENVIROSAFE INDUSTRIAL R12A 8 cans of Envirosafe INDUSTRIAL Refrigerant. of R-134a. The problem with these so called “drop in replacements” is that to properly handle them you may need dedicated equipment to identify the gas and evacuate it for proper disposal. Generally this works well for the whole system. R134a has a lower thermal conductivity than R22, so an R134a system needs a larger heat exchanger. The non-flammables can have R22 type gas which is not compatible with most rubber hoses or they have gases that contribute to global warming. 6 oz. And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose. Replace the drier with a drier that has a desiccant that is R134a compatible, use new R134a o-rings. R12 was just more robust and blew colder. FrostyCool 134 can be used to replace HCF R-134a and CFC-R12 substitute refrigerants in mobile air conditioning and refrigeration units. Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a “tracer dye”. Due to EPA regulations, we can not advise you to use this product in any system type except … Pound for pound R134a is a more efficient refrigerant than R12, however it runs at higher pressures in some aspects and therefore requires more effective condensing. Pound for pound R134a is a more efficient refrigerant than R12, however it runs at higher pressures in some aspects and therefore requires more effective condensing. The substitute that we used for R-12 was the new HFC called R-134a. Though you can purchase 12 or 16 ounce cans of R134a from local retailers it is very difficult to measure out the correct amount into your system. R134A takes a while to warm up, and it's harder to cool as the ambient temperature got higher. R134a and R12 Replacement. R134a vs R12 refrigerant? WORK ON YOUR OWN SYSTEM! To prevent refrigerant loss you should consider replacing your old hose lines with “barrier” type hose. COLDER THAN R134A & R12 – ZeroR ® AC Refrigerant is a lightweight gas and reduces friction in your AC system which improves cooling performance! By using a “black light” the dye will glow in areas where oil leaks are visible. It was later found that R-134a had a very high Global Warming Potential, or GWP, number. The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. After the “initial” charge the system is then “tweeked” : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. Duracool will cool much better than R134a and a bit better than … Remove the old mineral oil from the compressor by turning it upside down, side to side, and turn the front hub on the clutch assembly. Retrofit from R-134a to R-1234yf can be … When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. COLDER THAN R134a!!!!! On this website we are addressing only R134a and not other suggested “drop in” replacements. But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. Bottom line, R134a simply doesn’t cool as well as R12. If your car’s system has a sufficient condenser design and air flow to expel the greater amount of heat extracted by R134a, then by all means you should convert over when the time comes. R134a, however, is not a direct replacement for R12 due to incompatibilities in the compressor oils used for each refrigerant. R-12 & 16 oz. After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. from the above mentioned reasons R600a better than R134a in the performance. Your best bet is to just get it leak checked and refilled with R12 if you can, otherwise you have to clear the whole system out and do the conversion - you can't mix R12 with R134a, and it would be colder with the R12 anyway. By using a qualified a/c shop with the proper equipment you odd’s are in your favor of having the job done correctly the first time. Here are some things to keep in mind if you’ve got an R-12 or an R-134a system: R-134a refrigerant will remain in production, just in lower volumes according to demand. You do not need to replace the expansion valve in most cases. Green o-rings, cleaning out the lines, changed the compressor oil to PAG or Ester oil? But, if your old compressor has lock-up or if your current expansion valve is not functional it would wise to replace the expansion valve with a valve designed for R134a. This would become an expensive investment for a repair or service station to have unique dedicated equipment for every type of alternative refrigerant. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 – Actually R134a is more efficient. and is the equivalent to 18oz. if you use R134a w/the hoses you have now, it will seep through in the long run. You can still buy R12, but be prepared to pay a premium. Details about R-12. With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. If you you don’t have the free time to “play” then you are better off to pay a technician. If you are replacing other system components, such as condensers, driers or hoses, you may need to add more a/c refrigerant oil to the system. Your decision could be made based on economics, environmental concerns, or both. The original expansion valves work very well with R134a. Understand that R12 has its advantages. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 – Actually R134a is more efficient. Hydrocarbon Refrigerants Enviro-Safe Refrigerants are hydrocarbon refrigerants that are ultra-efficient. Now I know that r134a has smaller molecules than r12 so the compressor seals are going to be "tighter" and therefore r12 would be less likely to leak. R134a and R12 exhibit similar performance characteristics as refrigerants, with R12 showing a slight advantage. R12 was just better, period. If they detect substances other than R12 or R134a in your system, you might as well have the word "LEPER" written on your forehead, because then nobody wants to touch you. When the sensor detects the refrigerant leak the sniffers lights glow and the sniffer makes a noise. FrostyCool 134 will extend the life of a system because of the lower head pressures. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. What is usually “sniffed” are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. The two main reasons are that R134 has less heat capacity, and older R12 systems had a less-efficient, serpentine condenser that can't reject heat as well. But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas “ester” does mix very well. A vacuum pump, a refrigerant recover system, quality service gauge set with both low and high side gagues, and much more besides the lessons to learn what to do and what not to do. and is the equivalent to 16 oz. My current 2003 Accord blows ice-cold with R-134a, but it was designed to use it from the start. But then it's not as good as R12 still. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. In retro fitted systems, R12 is colder by a few degrees. of Enviro-Safe is equivalent to 18 oz. If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then you’ll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). R134A or HFC-134A became the accepted standard, because it has no potential of ozone depletion and has similar (but not equal to) cooling abilities to the R-12 and R-22 refrigerants. R-12 systems are still eligible for retrofit to R-134a. This is our coldest refrigerant available! Afterward, it was cool but not nearly as COLD as it was before. Hydrocarbon refrigerants are better than R134a or R12 and don't damage the ozone layer or cause global warming like R12 or R134a does. The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. 1 sold in last hour. A system circulating R134a needs a drier, because of the propensity of the refrigerant to absorb water. The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. but the density is a bit low for R600a. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. You do not need to replace every o-ring in the system, but if you happen to open a connection that has an o-ring you should replace the old o-ring with one that is compatible with R134a and lubricate the o-ring with ac oil. Push the high side retrofit R134a fitting over the old fitting and use a wrench to tighten it. I opted to go for the retrofit to R-134a, rather than keeping R-12. They might say for instance, add 3-4 oz of oil to the compressor, 1 oz of oil for when you replace a drier, 2 oz oil for the evaporator and so on. With R12 you use to check to see if the site glass was “full”, if it had bubbles it meant you had a low charge. At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop.
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